Tiada.Guru merakamkan ucapan terima kasih kepada BFM, Sharaad Kuttan, Lee Chwi Lynn, dan para penerbit BFM atas peluang bermakna ini.

Dengar episod di sini:

Top 5 at 5: Exposing Teachers Who Ponteng - But is MOE Listening?

Segmen Tiada.Guru bermula pada minit 23:01. Episod ini diterbitkan oleh Sudais Ferhard, Dashran Yohan, Sneha Harikannan, Alia Zefri, dan Juliet Jacobs.

Ahli Panel:

Calvina Angayung | 2020 High Court Plaintiff

Sharmila Sekaran | Chairperson, Voice of the Children and Tiada.Guru Peninsula Representative

Sharaad Kuttan | BFM Presenter

Lee Chwi Lynn | BFM Presenter

Susan Tam | BFM Presenter

Transkrip ini bermula pada 23:01.

Transkrip (segmen TG sahaja):

Transkrip ini hanya tersedia dalam Bahasa Inggeris yang asal.

23:01 BFM: Teacher absenteeism trial reveals coverups and negligence from MOE. So on Tuesday, a former aide to former education Maszlee Malik told the High Court in Kota Kinabalu that the Ministry of Education had ignored reports pertaining to sexual abuse, absenteeism, physical abuse cases, and even mismanaged funds. 

23:19 BFM: The aide, Shaza Scherazade Alauddin Onn, testified in the Siti Nafirah Siman teacher absentee lawsuit, and brought up that in sexual and physical abuse cases, only light disciplinary measures were taken, even though these were criminal offenses and should have been reported to the police. 

23:38 BFM: So we are going to be speaking very shortly with Sharmila Sekaran, chairperson of Voice of the Children. But before we get there, we've got some clips:

23:49 Calvina Angayung, 2020 High Court Plaintiff: Mula-mula dulu kami anggap benda ni macam biasa sahaja. Sampai kami ingat penindasan KPM ini macam takdir sudah. Guru-guru yang tak jujur pun terima benda ini jadi budaya. Budaya tutup kesalahan demi kepentingan sendiri.

24:04 Calvina: Jadi kesan dia, lebih teruk. Jadi, maukah kita kasih biar ja begitu? Sebab itu lah kami rasa terpanggil untuk hentikan budaya berdiam ni.

24:15 Calvina: Mungkin sebab mau jaga diri diorang kali kan? Janji gaji dorang jalan, orang bilang, tapi pelajar yang hilang pelajaran tu, dorang nda peduli pun langsung.  Lagi-lagi macam kami yang kelas belakang ni, boleh dikatakan ada diskriminasi lah ada di sana. 

24:35 Calvina: Pendapat saya, kalau betul KPM rasa bertanggungjawabkan, sudah lama bah dorang bertindak. Tengok ja, Hakim yang kami dapat: dia betul-betul utamakan keadilan sampai berani bongkar kebenaran di Mahkamah. 

24:50 BFM: So you just heard there from Calvina Angayung. Calvina was one of three students who successfully sued her former teacher in school in 2020 after enduring months without classes. And actually, in that case, the High Court awarded damages, and the trial also exposed attempts by teachers to cover up misconduct, including secret recordings of staff saying that they didn't want action taken against their colleagues. So there, Calvina was responding to how it felt as a student, knowing that her rights were being ignored, and what she felt it reflected of her school and the MOE. And she spoke about how they decided to change against what was being normalised, saying that if the Ministry had genuinely felt responsible, then action would have been taken sooner. 

25:30 BFM: So we also asked her what she hopes Malaysians to take away from her case, to which she stressed the importance of open investigation and protections for whistleblowers who pursue justice. 

25:40 BFM: She also asked, how long will MOE continue to protect absentee teachers? 

25:48 Calvina: Persoalan dia, di mana bah kami ni kena bersuara? Jadi saya berharap juga rakyat Malaysia dapat melihat keperluan wujudnya siasatan bebas dan penguatkuasaan bebas. Di Mahkamah Tinggi, kami dapat perintah injunksi, iaitu perlindungan terhadap Menteri setelah kami buktikan KPM mengganggu kami; kami juga dapat hakim bebas; semua saksi diberikan perlindungan untuk bersuara; kami berhak juga memanggil mana-mana saksi; dan kami dapat juga mengemukakan segala bukti kami di Mahkamah Tinggi.

26:28 Calvina: Jadi tiada harapan lah, kan, sekiranya KPM terus mengawal siasatan dan penguatkuasaan. Rakyat Malaysia juga lah mesti memahami perkara ini sekarang, sebelum lebih ramai lagi menjadi mangsa.

26:42 Calvina: Jadi saya akhiri dengan persoalan: Sampai bilakan guru ponteng ini terus dilindungi oleh Kementerian Pendidikan Malaysia?

26:52 BFM: That was Calvina Angayung, one of three students who successfully sued her former teacher in school for absenteeism. That was in 2020. Joining us now, though, to talk about the latest case and the testimony that's been given there is Shamila Sekaran and chairperson of Voice of the Children. Sharmila, thank you so much for joining us this evening. 

27:14 Sharmila Sekaran, Voice of the Children Chairperson & Tiada.Guru Representative: Hi, good evening.

27:15  BFM: So, if we look at what was said, were you shocked by the testimony given in court or was it, in fact, not a surprise to you? 

27:22 Sharmila: Sadly, it wasn't very shocking for me. I was aware of some of this already, but the reality is that a lot of this is really a systemic failure, which has permeated the Ministry of Education and all of civil service—in all the service-providing government departments and ministries. So, yes, sadly not very shocking, but it's always very sad to hear. And, you know, to have it repeated because of the impact that it has on those who are vulnerable. In this case, these students and the young teacher who have been threatened and bullied. 

28:03 BFM: So when, you know, when people say that the Ministry of Education failed to act in the testimony that was heard in court, I mean, who are the actual parties that we're talking about? 

28:15 Sharmila: So, in the Ministry of Education, there are different levels. So at the first instance, and which is why the students, um, filed legal action against everyone from the teacher himself to the head, to the district office, right up to the Minister and Prime Minister because everyone is culpable, right? There were failures at every stage, including at MOE, the headquarters in Putrajaya. 

28:44 Sharmila: There was failure throughout, and we can see how there was systemic failure from the very beginning because this teacher has been playing truant from school, absent from school. This is not the 1st time. So the case that we're hearing now is a 2015 case. We've already completed the 2018 case. But we have to remember that the 2015 case is not the first time the teacher was absent. He has been absent since, you know, the very beginning and just became bolder and bolder because no action was taken. And he is still teaching in the school, from what I understand. 

29:21 Sharmila: He's still there. He's still abusing students. He's still violating all the principles that a teacher should not be violating, should hold fast against. And no action has been taken against him till today. 

29:39 BFM: So, from Shaza’s testimony, we heard how in both abuse cases and the teacher absenteeism, school teachers and headmasters didn't just fail to act, but actively covered things up. I mean, even backdating documents. Why do you think this culture of minimizing or protecting perpetrators persists in our schools? 

29:59 Sharmila: Yeah, this is a really difficult question, really, because it just shows that we lack moral, you know, our moral compass needs to be reset. We have allowed complete moral failure in our morals, in our integrity, and it has permeated into the school system. 

30:25 Sharmila: So really what we are seeing is something which has been happening since, you know, more than 30 years ago. And we are facing the systemic abuses right up to today. 

30:40 BFM: Sure, let me ask you another difficult question. How far reaching is this problem? Is it isolated in Kota Belud? Do we see these cases happening elsewhere? 

30:48 Sharmila: No, that's the added tragedy. You know, when the first lot of students came to see me in 2018, I thought it was a joke. I just thought that these were a bunch of students who hadn't done well in Form 5 and were now looking to blame someone. So I didn't really take it too seriously, but they had come all the way from Sabah to meet with me and with others, and so I thought I must look into this. 

31:20 Sharmila: I asked people I knew in Sabah, and I'm talking about throughout Sabah, from Tawau to some Semporna to KK to various places. In Sabah, most of them are lawyers, and I wrote to them individually, all of them. Basically putting the core summary of the story, right? Teacher not coming to school for seven months. I thought this must be a joke, seven months. All of them, every single one of them, from different parts of Sabah, wrote back and said, Sandakan as well, all wrote back and said, “Oh, yeah, open secret.” Every single one of them. I then spoke to some teachers in KK also, who said, “Yeah, this is a standard practice. “

32:03 Sharmila: The fact that I was making inquiries, I also spoke to Sarawak because Sarawak  had a similar problem. But the Sarawak politician's leadership took control of the situation, and so they have actually rectified a lot of problems, in terms of education, in Sarawak, and in terms, indeed, in a lot of other areas. 

32:22 Sharmila: But the fact that I was making inquiries also others started hearing about it and I got reports or information from other teachers in Peninsula Malaysia. So it's not just Sabah. In Peninsula Malaysia, schools in Gombak, for example, the Orang Alsi school in Gombak, as an example. Kedah, throughout the peninsula, teachers are calling in and reporting to me that there is a problem of teacher absenteeism in their schools. So, sadly, this seems to be a major problem. But, but, particularly in Sabah.

33:01 BFM: And if we look at situation, so we've been talking quite a bit about the absenteeism, but the testimony also touches on abuse, and I suppose, in these cases of abuse, teachers don't seem to fulfill their roles as protectors of their students, and in the case of absenteeism, they don't fulfill their roles as educators, even when in both instances they're legally obligated to. What is the source of this disconnect? 

33:24 Sharmila: I really think that a lot of this is to do with institutional self-preservation, where the institution or the school, um, puts its own reputation over justice over the role as a protector. There's also definitely a culture of fear of retaliation. Where, you know, if it's a protected teacher or a person, then, you know, the person who's going to blow the whistle will face some kind of retaliation for blowing the whistle. 

33:58 Sharmila: But you know, this also points to one of the biggest problems that we are seeing, and that is the lack of meritocracy. So when promotions are based on loyalty and not on capability, when schools are rewarding sycophancy, rather than ethical leadership, then you see the wrong people coming to the top. People who are willing to play the game and basically suck up to the head or the Ministry officials are the ones who are going to be promoted. And those who have integrity will be sidelined. 

34:32 Sharmila: There's a problem when we have gatekeeping and nepotism. In this case, we hear that one of the very senior people in the Ministry, um, overseeing having oversight over Sabah, the, the, um, education division in Sabah, is related to this teacher. So all the more you can see where nepotism and lack of meritocracy continues. Where mediocrity, and this is something I've been saying all the time, that mediocrity is protected–so we shield and we protect, underperforming, or non-performing, unethical staff, because exposing them would then expose the poor decisions that employed them, that put them there. 

35:17 Sharmila: So, you see, what you're getting is management that lacks moral courage. I spoke earlier about moral bankruptcy. You know, moral bankruptcy is not always loud. It is the quiet compliance. There are teachers who knew what was going on, who chose to just avert their eyes, or, you know, this whole “Saya menurut perintah. It's not my job to rock the boat. I'm here just to follow orders, even if the order is wrong, I will follow it because I'm compliant.” 

35:46 Sharmila: You know, these are some of the issues that give rise to the fact as to why teachers are not standing up as protectors. There's also the issue of, you know, willingness to be complicit because they themselves lack integrity. They themselves lack moral courage. And morality. 

36:09 Sharmila: So, it's also a system of bureaucracy and compliance over substance. I have met many teachers who have reported child abuse, sexual abuse even, you know, and sometimes this is not happening in school. A teacher picks it up where a child is being abused at home. And they report it upline the way they're supposed to, right up to the head. 

36:35 Sharmila: But those teachers have been told that if they want to make a police report to protect the child to do so in their own time, the school is not going to stand behind them. The school's not going to protect them. So, you know, why should a teacher take time out of his or her own schedule to go and make a police report? They can't do it during school time. And then when the IO investigating officer calls the name, court, uh, appearances, if it goes that far, you know, all this they have to take leave for, they have to do it, in their time when they have their own families to think about. 

37:07 Sharmila: So, you know, the entire system operates to basically protect the wrongdoer, to protect the perpetrator, to protect the unreliable, and the incompetent, and not the competent and not the person with integrity. 

37:24 Sharmila: We also try to remember that there are cultural norms. So, like, if there's a popular teacher, or a popular head, then the chances are that, and this happens across the board, right? Even within families, if someone is popular or seems nice and good, then the presumption is, no, they can't be doing this wrong thing. So the chances of having it reported will be less. And what we are seeing and what we've heard in this case also is the fact of weak regulation oversight, um, by the Ministry, as well as lack of external accountability. 

37:59 Sharmila: There are no safe channels for teachers and students to report wrongdoing within the school system. We see here, like I said earlier, this teacher's own relative was the head of the state department, and was the person, without integrity, totally in conflict of interest doing investigation over his / her own relative. Anyone with integrity would have said, “No, I'm conflicted. This is my relative. Someone else needs to do it.”

38:30 Sharmila: But, you know, we lack this whole regime of accountability, of honesty, of integrity, of moral accountability. It's tragic, what's happening? 

38:44 BFM: Yes, and rightly so. So, looking at these cases, right, brought forth by Siti Nafirah and Calvina, who we already heard earlier, do you think they set a precedent for holding schools and the Ministry accountable? 

38:57 Sharmila: Um... I don't know. I... You know, I think it will take a lot more than just two cases, because, um, we know that in Calvina, you know, Calvina’s cases, right? Those 3 girls. Um, there has been, the court is awarded judgment for them. Um, monies are due to be paid to them by the offending teacher, by the state, and by the Ministry. 

39:25 Sharmila: And this was more than a year ago, they've not seen even half a cent. So, while there's a Court Judgment, clearly, there's a complete breakdown in rule of law, where the Minister, right down, does not think that they need to abide by a Court ruling. 

39:43 Sharmila: So we are seeing complete anarchy within the government, within the Ministries, um, and this is something Prime Minister, Anwar Ibrahim, really needs to take charge of because, um, increasingly, it is a failing government. This is a failing government. 

40:00 BFM: In closing, then, what changes do you see as being needed, whether we're talking legal, institutional, or cultural, to make sure children are, in fact, truly protected in schools?

40:12 Sharmila: Um, so, we really need to codify protection and not just the procedures we have, um, standard operating procedures, SOPs, um, but protection has not been codified. So, um, there needs, the people who cover up, for example, the headmaster who backdated documents, those who have withheld reports. These are criminal offenses, and the police need to charge them. 

40:40 Sharmila: Because this is fraud.  Um, they need to be very severe penalties for non-compliance, which need to be um, uh, enforced and publicized. 

40:51 Sharmila: Um, we need an independent child protection oversight body.  Um, someone, uh, an entity, which is external of the education department, which is the external of the social welfare department, of the children's department, who are able to enter schools and assess records, and basically sanction the schools and institutions as well as individuals, um, and they must be able to refer cases for criminal investigation. 

41:15 Sharmila: Um, the fact that MACC has failed to take action is a black mark against Azam Baki and his, um, his department MACC. It is also black mark against the police, which we see, but was quite really willing to cover up the abuses that happened to even the Zara Qairina case, um, until there was public outrage. 

41:35 Sharmila: So we can see that only when the Minister speaks out, when there's public outrage, and politicians fear for their position, do things move. So this needs to be taken away from politics, away from Ministries, and an independent body needs to be established. 

41:54 Sharmila: There needs to be very, very strong whistleblower protection legislation. The Whistleblower Protection Act was amended, but was not amended strongly enough, to grant immunity and protection from retaliation. Um, and with strong legal because it's reached, it needs to be robust protection for staff and students report abuse and misconduct, or institutional failure, and this is not granted under the current Whistleblower Protection Act. So that needs to be strengthened again. 

42:23 Sharmila: Um, and there must be a legal obligation for transparency. The law needs to be amended to require public reporting of the number and type of child safety complaints, the investigation outcomes, and the disciplinary actions taken. Because what we are seeing are teachers who are being just moved around like chess pieces, but no severe action has been taken. So they are given the message that it's okay to do wrong, we will protect you. 

42:50 Sharmila: Um, there needs to be institutional changes and that means the entire system needs to be revamped, redesigned–need to dismantle what exists now with very clear impossible child protection policies, regular independent audits, um, which should be unannounced. 

43:06 Sharmila: They should just turn up and conduct an audit of the child safety practices and the handling of complaints. And it should be reported back. Um, there needs to be a standardized complaint and escalation system. as well as, um, merit-based accountable leadership appointments. 

43:23 Sharmila: So no more should people be protected and loyalty over merit. Everything needs to be merit based, and we're seeing, and this is across the board, where meritocracy is not the key concern. Um, there is a complete dismantling of structure, and there needs to be an external professional disciplinary body. which will investigate and deregister teachers or principals. 

43:49 Sharmila: There also needs to be a cultural change, which I would really like this government to start looking on for zero  tolerance for silence and coverup. And so all the people listed in these 2 cases, the Calvina case in the current case, really all the people need to be sanctioned and they need to be sanctioned publicly. 

44:08 Sharmila: So that there's a clear message that we will have no tolerance for cover up and for wrongdoing. Um, students and parents need to be empowered, and really they need to be professional ethic training for educators. So, um, that's all very quickly in summation.

44:27 BFM: Sharmila, thank you very much for speaking with us today. That was Sharmila Sekaran, chairperson of Voice of the Children, and this is Top 5 at 5 at BFM, 89.9.